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In Finture, she has been working... longer than Finture has existed. Although, right after her studies (in mechatronics), she dealt with autonomous vacuum cleaners and observational rovers (though not on Mars), she eventually directed her steps towards programming, which she is still doing today. Recently, however, she has discovered the charms of managerial work and finds even greater satisfaction in it. Katarzyna Złotkowska – currently working as a team manager – tells Weronika Dyląg about working at Finture, recruitments, and how sewing resembles programming.
How long have you been working at Finture?
Since the beginning... or even before that, I joke that I'm "in the negative," which means you have to count at least seven years... and a bit more. I joined Radek's team in 2015 and have stayed ever since, with various reshuffles along the way (including the creation of Finture). I've been working on the same project I joined all this time.
Always on the same project?
Tak, będzie już w zasadzie prawie 9 lat, choć z przerwą na macierzyński – około półtora roku. Za to z powrotem na to samo stanowisko. Mówię często, że to „firma przyjazna młodym mamom”, bo dużo dziewczyn u nas idzie na macierzyński, wraca i spokojnie się znów odnajduje. Także to jest spoko.
Yes, that's great. Did you start as a programmer?
Yes. I've always been a programmer. I graduated in mechatronics – a more general field – but programming was the easiest subject for me. So – given that in Poland, there aren't too many jobs for mechatronics engineers, or more specifically roboticists, because that's my specialization – I started moving in the direction I liked and was best at.
Od robotyki do zarządzania zespołem
But you have some experience in robotics... I saw you worked in that area for Siemens and Robotics Inventions.
Praktyki odbyłam w Siemensie, a właściwe doświadczenie zdobyłam w startupie Robotics Inventions. Pracowaliśmy tam nad autonomicznym odkurzaczem oraz projektami badawczymi, m.in. łazikami obserwacyjnymi do zbierania danych. Spędziłam w tym zespole dwa lata.
Z czasem zaczęły mnie jednak męczyć kwestie administracyjne i zależność od finansowania z Unii, dlatego zdecydowałam się na zmianę i trafiłam do Finture.
And you've been there for years – but definitely not standing still. You've gone through various stages in programming positions, and now you're essentially in a managerial role?
Jeszcze nie przyzwyczaiłam się do oficjalnego tytułu [śmiech]. Moja ścieżka rozwijała się naturalnie – od pisania większych fragmentów kodu, przez całe procesy, aż po koordynowanie pracy zespołu.
Dziś więcej czasu zajmuje organizacja i planowanie, choć staram się nadal programować, bo bardzo to lubię. Najtrudniejsze było pogodzenie się z tym, że osoby skupione wyłącznie na kodzie mogą mieć większą wiedzę techniczną. Z czasem zaakceptowałam, że nie da się robić wszystkiego jednocześnie.
Gdy zarządzanie spotyka programowanie
You get along with management, and it suits you. But you mentioned you're not giving up on programming? What do you like about it?
First of all, programming is nice in that it gives immediate results. I write something – and something happens. Simple. This is not to say that programming itself is simple. I mean, there are no undercurrents, things "underneath." There are rules, you create things, and the computer reacts in a specific, predictable way – and that gives you satisfaction, and you see the results immediately. I also like that if you learn programming and understand it, then the language doesn't matter – you can switch and use it in every aspect of life. It also gives you a vision that you can find your place everywhere.
That sounds great. And do you still develop and learn in programming? Any new language or methodology?
For 1.5 years, I participated in another project at a bank, but unfortunately, it ended. It gave me a lot, as we encountered other technologies and languages I had little to do with. Unfortunately, I don't have much room for learning out of curiosity. Besides, when it comes to technologies, there are more and more of them. There are very high-level languages. It's now a matter of specializing in specific languages and fields. You can't cover everything at once.
Teraz chciałabym zdać certyfikat z Javy11, więc przyglądam się, czy może właśnie miałabym już czas, żeby się jej douczać.
Wyzwania w zarządzaniu zespołem – między kodem a koordynacją
And in team management – what challenges or problems do you encounter?
I was waiting for this question [laughs]. The biggest challenge is combining these two areas – programming with organizational work. It's constantly switching between threads and "ways of thinking." Necessarily, the time for focused, deep work decreases. It's not like when I had a task, I could sit focused on it all day and then submit it.
Now, something always comes up during the day, and "throw-ins" appear. You have to decide whether we can do something, and if so – when. Initially, it was also a big problem for me – the need for assertiveness, to sometimes refuse. You have to talk it over, reply, arrange things with the team... To be able to program calmly – I block 2-3 hours a day for programming and turn on the "do not disturb" status, getting rid of notifications. Sometimes, I also decide to do it in the evening – unfortunately – because then I have the quietest moment, and it's easiest for me to focus.
Yes, this multitasking is the primary challenge – switching between tasks. One has to manage the team and also one's brain – stimulate it properly, not overloading it with everything at once.
Those are challenges from your side. And from the team's side?
Of course, there are technical challenges. Our framework is constantly developing, so we have to keep up. Various activities – like training – need to be skillfully coordinated with work in the team.
And there are, how else, human-level challenges. Because we're not all the same. Everyone in the team functions differently – has different traits and approaches, works differently, and needs something else to work effectively. So, on my part, it's to get to know each person, "learn them," and thus be able to make the project work on a symbiotic principle – so that it's nice for everyone to work and the best code is produced.
Programowanie, komunikacja i… dobry humor
Do you often work with the client?
I work mainly with the team. More business contacts are not something I find myself in. But also, situations where my input into this business contact is needed only happen sometimes.
As for the technical aspect, the nature of our work is such that there are more and more mixed teams with client-side people because we work on their framework, so this contact is increasing. Naturally, I communicate with the client-side programmers.
Do these mixed teams make work easier?
Yes and no. On the one hand, we can get in touch at any moment, have mutual responsiveness, and work in joint teams. But "mixed" projects also require more effort to develop a shared vision, agree on it, and weigh priorities.
Returning to the team – I know you actively participate in recruitment. What do you look for in potential candidates, programmers, who could work with you?
In current recruitments, I focus – from a technical point of view – on confirming that candidates indeed have a basic level of Java programming. That's a necessary condition.
However, I also pay attention to a set of soft skills. Our project requires communication skills – you can't just receive a task, sit quietly for a week, and not talk to anyone, just poking around in the code. You need to contact analytical teams, testers, and people on the bank's side. So, a certain openness and sociability are necessary here.
There's also an essential trait I look for. And contrary to popular opinion, not everyone who can program has it. It's the ability to think logically in an expanded way. Without it, you can't propose thoughtful task implementations or creative approaches to problems.
A good sense of humor helps, too. And that's enough.
Równość w zespole i satysfakcja z pracy z ludźmi
When it comes to hiring – do you think there's a reason why we perform well in the IT market in terms of the percentage of women working with us? Why do women like working at Finture?
Kobiety w Finture to nie tylko programistki – wiele z nich pracuje jako analityczki i testerki. Programistek jest obecnie mniej, choć bywały czasy, gdy firma była wręcz „babska”. W rekrutacjach nadal częściej pojawiają się mężczyźni, ale kandydatki często wyróżniają się dokładnością, dobrą organizacją i dużą motywacją do nauki. Trudno powiedzieć, czy kobiety chętniej wybierają naszą firmę, jednak ważnym argumentem jest równe, kompetencyjne traktowanie wszystkich. Zauważalne jest też, że w jednym z projektów wszystkie cztery stanowiska liderskie zajmują kobiety. Rynek się zmienia – coraz więcej kobiet wysyła CV i mam nadzieję, że ta tendencja będzie się utrzymywać.
What do you value most in your current role?
I've been thinking about this recently. That it may not be a job where I save people's lives. I don't work in a Foundation; I work "in a bank." I joked that thanks to me, people can take out a loan or submit an application. Well, but it's also some facilitation. As for my role as a leader – I hope, to some extent, to make it a bit better for people to work. That's precisely how I see this position: so we can be a cool team where everyone works well.
So, basically – you like to help.
Yes. And maybe it's not a help on a global scale, but yes, supporting also gives me satisfaction. I'd say programming gives "hard" satisfaction, more noticeable. Here, the effects are more "soft," harder to measure and notice, but the challenge is greater. And perhaps that's why I get more satisfaction from it.
W przerwie od zarządzania zespołem
Well, good. Work is work. But tell me, how do you relax?
Kiedyś oglądałam dużo filmów, dziś – z braku czasu – częściej seriale. Dla równowagi uczę się grać na perkusji, co świetnie odstresowuje – to prezent od męża na trzydziestkę i spełnienie mojego marzenia. Niedawno zaczęłam też szyć na maszynie. Daje to dużą satysfakcję i, trochę jak programowanie, pozwala tworzyć i rozwijać kreatywność.
And it also requires a lot of precision.
Yes. It focuses both hands and the brain, so it's great for relaxing. And it takes up less space than a drum set.
So, what have you sewn recently?
A backpack for my husband! I had some free time over the weekend so I could sew. Mainly, I sew for my daughter because it's such a grateful subject – you can try a lot, you don't need much material because she's still tiny. The higher level is hemming and sewing curtains – so that's still ahead of me. That scares me a bit. But I assume I'll do it myself since I have the machine.
I would have thought that a backpack was a greater challenge.
Kind of, but the "volume" of such a curtain scares me. You must measure, cut, plan, and hem well so it lays right. It's something that was given to a seamstress to be done well. Or mom or grandma did it. And now I try it by myself.
And... I like to plan. For example, trips. Now we can travel less because we have a four-year-old. But I also enjoy planning trips – it's something cool for me. My daughter is getting older, so I hope we'll be able to realize these plans soon.
For sure!