In Finture, she has been working... longer than Finture has existed. Although, right after her studies (in mechatronics), she dealt with autonomous vacuum cleaners and observational rovers (though not on Mars), she eventually directed her steps towards programming, which she is still doing today. Recently, however, she has discovered the charms of managerial work and finds even greater satisfaction in it. Katarzyna Złotkowska – currently working as a team manager – tells Weronika Dyląg about working at Finture, recruitments, and how sewing resembles programming.
How long have you been working at Finture?
Since the beginning... or even before that, I joke that I'm "in the negative," which means you have to count at least seven years... and a bit more. I joined Radek's team in 2015 and have stayed ever since, with various reshuffles along the way (including the creation of Finture). I've been working on the same project I joined all this time.
Always on the same project?
Yes, it's been almost 9 years, although I took about a year and a half off for maternity leave. But I returned to the same position. I often say it's a "mother-friendly company" because many women here go on maternity leave, return, and find their place again. So that's cool.
Yes, that's great. Did you start as a programmer?
Yes. I've always been a programmer. I graduated in mechatronics – a more general field – but programming was the easiest subject for me. So – given that in Poland, there aren't too many jobs for mechatronics engineers, or more specifically roboticists, because that's my specialization – I started moving in the direction I liked and was best at.
But you have some experience in robotics... I saw you worked in that area for Siemens and Robotics Inventions.
At Siemens, I had an internship, and that's it. Then, I started working at a small startup – Robotics Inventions. From the beginning, we had a team of electronics and mechanics specialists, and we were working on an autonomous vacuum cleaner and more scientific or scientific-military projects – rovers and the like. Just so we're clear – it wasn't the "Mars league." We called them "observational rovers" – designed for collecting and sending data (in terrestrial conditions).
It was a cool job and a great team – I spent two years there.
However, since the startup heavily depended on EU funding, only a little changed regarding what bothered me during those two years. After two years, I was tired of various conditions and the overload of administrative issues. And the startup didn't develop as initially planned. So, it was time for the next place – Finture.
And you've been there for years – but definitely not standing still. You've gone through various stages in programming positions, and now you're essentially in a managerial role?
I'm still not used to that it's official [laughs].
Because it was a path that developed quite smoothly – as my programming skills grew, I was given increasingly responsible tasks. Larger chunks of code. Bigger processes. And when it came to managing a whole new process, for which I was responsible – and new people were added to it – it naturally also became not only programming work but managerial. More writing emails than writing code.
There might be fewer emails in the post-pandemic time, but instead, we decide more on Teams. It's just more organizational work than programming. I try to program as much as I can – I really like it and don't want to lose touch with programming – but I definitely find myself in the organizational part of the work. I like planning – listing tasks, thinking about their most efficient order, and managing time. So this really suits me. But the truth is, I had to get used to it, get used to the idea that the people who work with me as programmers and dedicate all their time to it now have more knowledge than me. Because I can't keep up with their pace, doing these soft and organizational things. There was a moment when I struggled with my thoughts and wasn't entirely comfortable in this situation. Fortunately, I've worked through that and reconciled with the fact that, unfortunately, you can't do everything at once.
The day is too short.
Definitely. Especially since the little one at home also takes time outside work.
How old are they?
4 years old. Thankfully – now it's much better than it was. One, I can work remotely. Two – they get sick less often – knock on wood [laughs] – so it's manageable.
Well, yes. A little one at home, a team at work. And how many people are in it?
The answer to that question is not so simple – we share the team, depending on the processes, with another manager. But you should count from a few to a dozen people.
You get along with management, and it suits you. But you mentioned you're not giving up on programming? What do you like about it?
First of all, programming is nice in that it gives immediate results. I write something – and something happens. Simple. This is not to say that programming itself is simple. I mean, there are no undercurrents, things "underneath." There are rules, you create things, and the computer reacts in a specific, predictable way – and that gives you satisfaction, and you see the results immediately. I also like that if you learn programming and understand it, then the language doesn't matter – you can switch and use it in every aspect of life. It also gives you a vision that you can find your place everywhere.
That sounds great. And do you still develop and learn in programming? Any new language or methodology?
For 1.5 years, I participated in another project at a bank, but unfortunately, it ended. It gave me a lot, as we encountered other technologies and languages I had little to do with. Unfortunately, I don't have much room for learning out of curiosity. Besides, when it comes to technologies, there are more and more of them. There are very high-level languages. It's now a matter of specializing in specific languages and fields. You can't cover everything at once.
I want to get a Java11 certification, so I'm looking to see if I have time to learn it now.
And in team management – what challenges or problems do you encounter?
I was waiting for this question [laughs]. The biggest challenge is combining these two areas – programming with organizational work. It's constantly switching between threads and "ways of thinking." Necessarily, the time for focused, deep work decreases. It's not like when I had a task, I could sit focused on it all day and then submit it.
Now, something always comes up during the day, and "throw-ins" appear. You have to decide whether we can do something, and if so – when. Initially, it was also a big problem for me – the need for assertiveness, to sometimes refuse. You have to talk it over, reply, arrange things with the team... To be able to program calmly – I block 2-3 hours a day for programming and turn on the "do not disturb" status, getting rid of notifications. Sometimes, I also decide to do it in the evening – unfortunately – because then I have the quietest moment, and it's easiest for me to focus.
Yes, this multitasking is the primary challenge – switching between tasks. One has to manage the team and also one's brain – stimulate it properly, not overloading it with everything at once.
Those are challenges from your side. And from the team's side?
Of course, there are technical challenges. Our framework is constantly developing, so we have to keep up. Various activities – like training – need to be skillfully coordinated with work in the team.
And there are, how else, human-level challenges. Because we're not all the same. Everyone in the team functions differently – has different traits and approaches, works differently, and needs something else to work effectively. So, on my part, it's to get to know each person, "learn them," and thus be able to make the project work on a symbiotic principle – so that it's nice for everyone to work and the best code is produced.
Do you often work with the client?
I work mainly with the team. More business contacts are not something I find myself in. But also, situations where my input into this business contact is needed only happen sometimes.
As for the technical aspect, the nature of our work is such that there are more and more mixed teams with client-side people because we work on their framework, so this contact is increasing. Naturally, I communicate with the client-side programmers.
Do these mixed teams make work easier?
Yes and no. On the one hand, we can get in touch at any moment, have mutual responsiveness, and work in joint teams. But "mixed" projects also require more effort to develop a shared vision, agree on it, and weigh priorities.
Returning to the team – I know you actively participate in recruitment. What do you look for in potential candidates, programmers, who could work with you?
In current recruitments, I focus – from a technical point of view – on confirming that candidates indeed have a basic level of Java programming. That's a necessary condition.
However, I also pay attention to a set of soft skills. Our project requires communication skills – you can't just receive a task, sit quietly for a week, and not talk to anyone, just poking around in the code. You need to contact analytical teams, testers, and people on the bank's side. So, a certain openness and sociability are necessary here.
There's also an essential trait I look for. And contrary to popular opinion, not everyone who can program has it. It's the ability to think logically in an expanded way. Without it, you can't propose thoughtful task implementations or creative approaches to problems.
A good sense of humor helps, too. And that's enough.
When it comes to hiring – do you think there's a reason why we perform well in the IT market in terms of the percentage of women working with us? Why do women like working at Finture?
First, it's worth noting that women at Finture are not only programmers. A significant percentage are analysts and testers. As for programmers, we are currently in the minority, although I remember when there were more of us; you could even say we had an honest "women's company."
There are still more men in recruitment. It might be anecdotal, but it seems to me that when female candidates appear in recruitment – they seem more meticulous, organized, or just – well-arranged. They're more eager to tighten up and learn.
Whether women really come to our company more willingly? Honestly, I don't know. But when we recommend working with us to someone, the reason is that everyone is treated equally and assessed based on competence. It might also be that ladies see that – for example, in our project – all four leadership positions are occupied by women. I think that gets noticed. Although these are a bit of our speculations. It's definitely visible that, in the long run, the market as a whole is changing, and more women are sending CVs. I hope there will be more and more of them, and the environment will become more open. When I was in college, two women were in my group of 30 people. Now, it's definitely better.
What do you value most in your current role?
I've been thinking about this recently. That it may not be a job where I save people's lives. I don't work in a Foundation; I work "in a bank." I joked that thanks to me, people can take out a loan or submit an application. Well, but it's also some facilitation. As for my role as a leader – I hope, to some extent, to make it a bit better for people to work. That's precisely how I see this position: so we can be a cool team where everyone works well.
So, basically – you like to help.
Yes. And maybe it's not a help on a global scale, but yes, supporting also gives me satisfaction. I'd say programming gives "hard" satisfaction, more noticeable. Here, the effects are more "soft," harder to measure and notice, but the challenge is greater. And perhaps that's why I get more satisfaction from it.
Well, good. Work is work. But tell me, how do you relax?
I used to watch many movies, but now I've switched to series due to lack of time. It could be something that zombifies the brain or isn't original, but I like it. As for more "for the soul" activities – I'm learning to play the drums. It's a cool thing – I got it as a gift from my husband for my thirtieth birthday, and I'm very grateful because I have always dreamed of it. And I could never get around to it myself. It's great; it's a great way to destress and vent. I also recently started learning to sew with a machine. I joke that it's like a "hobby for older people," but the truth is, it also gives satisfaction and is even quite similar to programming. It offers a similar freedom of creation and unleashes creativity.
And it also requires a lot of precision.
Yes. It focuses both hands and the brain, so it's great for relaxing. And it takes up less space than a drum set.
So, what have you sewn recently?
A backpack for my husband! I had some free time over the weekend so I could sew. Mainly, I sew for my daughter because it's such a grateful subject – you can try a lot, you don't need much material because she's still tiny. The higher level is hemming and sewing curtains – so that's still ahead of me. That scares me a bit. But I assume I'll do it myself since I have the machine.
I would have thought that a backpack was a greater challenge.
Kind of, but the "volume" of such a curtain scares me. You must measure, cut, plan, and hem well so it lays right. It's something that was given to a seamstress to be done well. Or mom or grandma did it. And now I try it by myself.
And... I like to plan. For example, trips. Now we can travel less because we have a four-year-old. But I also enjoy planning trips – it's something cool for me. My daughter is getting older, so I hope we'll be able to realize these plans soon.
For sure!
