What is it like to change your chosen path to programming after over twenty years of a career in retail? How, while constantly learning new things, do you still find time for family, not to mention training and charity events? Marek Lukoszek – now a Junior Programmer at Finture – shares with us his fascinating journey into programming and what drives him every day.

We're talking remotely because – if I understand correctly – you're waiting for your daughter at a cafe?

With varying success, so to speak. The biggest ordeal was probably after the biology exam. She took the extended biology exam because she wants to get into psychology, and biology is essential there. I explained to her that a lot depends on how she performs compared to others. She might have 30%, but if everyone else has 20%, she'll still be the best. Well, we'll see how it goes. Psychology actually offers various paths. It doesn't have to be strictly a therapist or psychologist; it could also be, for example, in HR.

Apparently, 60% of people with a psychology degree don't stay in the profession.

Well, yes. I actually finished philosophy first... I completed my studies completely randomly. In reality, philosophy doesn't provide a specific profession unless I stayed at the university or taught ethics in school.

So why philosophy?

Those were the first studies I chose after high school. Everyone told me, "What will you do afterward?" And I was "smarter," commuting to the University of Silesia in Katowice for five years. But in the fourth year, I started a computer science program, and... I didn't finish it! And I didn't finish it because during the last semester, I got a job at Upos [former name: Exorigo-Upos]. That was in 1999. I had less time because of it, and I decided not to go through the defense and exams.

However, even then, I was involved in programming – albeit in Turbo Pascal and a bit of C++. I always got an "A" in Turbo Pascal; I remember being at the top of my group, and I recall that I enjoyed it. A pleasant memory from the old days.

That probably also guided me now, contributed to where I am and what I'm learning.

So, you joined Upos, still known as Exorigo-Upos at that time, as a programmer?

No. I joined the sales department in a position that was called something like "Sales and Marketing Specialist," if I remember correctly. That was twenty-four years ago.

You worked at Exorigo-Upos for a long time.

In Upos itself, I worked until 2010, for eleven years. From a specialist through the head of the export department... I ended up as the sales director. When our companies started to merge, we met with Marcin Fadrowski, who was then in the management of Exorigo, and Witold Rydzewski, who also managed sales, and we slowly began to work it out together as a trio. But at some point, I decided to try my own business. With less satisfying results, so to speak. Well, then I returned to retail because once you spend some time in retail, you're forever marked (laughter).

Now, working for Finture, it's the first time in years that I'm dealing with something different.

It's quite a leap – from the sales department, from retail, to dealing with programming. Because now, are you a programmer?

I'm trying. With the help of more experienced colleagues, I'm completing programming tasks. With varying success. But yes, the overall goal is to be a programmer.

So what are your tasks currently?

I take care of the development of the insurance claims settlement system. Although it must be admitted that I am still getting acquainted with it. The system is quite complex, and I've only been here for a few months, so I still need some time. Recently, after training, I talked to a colleague with whom I practice karate together. He also works in IT in an insurance company. He used to work in a bank, and back then, he thought that banking systems and processes were complicated. And then he changed jobs, moved to an insurance company, and found himself scratching his head.

And in which programming languages do you code?

Now, I'm learning JavaScript. The front-end of the system requires it, so I need to catch up a bit. I've been coding in Java for two years. Currently, in my studies, whenever I have the opportunity to choose the language for my project, I also opt for Java.

So, philosophy and now computer science?

Yes, now I'm studying computer science – it's an engineering degree, and I'm in my third year.

Congratulations!

Earlier, for about a year, I learned Java. I chose this language because it seemed to have a syntax similar to C++. Later, I took a basic Java course – it was around the time the pandemic started, so the meetings were online. I liked the possibility of remote work. I decided that I needed some documentation of my skills, hence the decision to pursue studies. And I honestly like it. Of course, there's a lot of additional knowledge. For example, now I have physics classes. As you can imagine, the last time I had physics was in high school. So, I'm delving into these abstract realms for me, and it takes quite a bit of effort...

Where did the idea come from to switch to computer science? To IT? To working as a programmer?

I've been working in IT since the very beginning of my professional career, although it was more of a coincidence. I lived in a tenement house next to the one where Upos was located. A friend who worked there called me and said they needed someone to work. I was at the job interview within 5 minutes. I didn't even go back home, I immediately started handling some formalities. And that's how I stayed (laughs).

After twenty-four years of working in sales, I wanted to change something, do something new. Sales is a fairly repetitive process where only current achievements matter. But if you write code, some function in a program, it stays – the next time you work on it, you can approach the issue from a different perspective. And that's what I was looking for. When I manage to complete the tasks I get from my supervisor, I really feel a great satisfaction. Of course, the next day, I get another task and act surprised (laughs).

However, it's not that this change has only advantages for me. At the beginning, I had to come to terms with much lower earnings. But I was prepared for that. It seems to me that anyone can become a programmer. It's just a matter of how much time you are willing to dedicate to it. Of course, the tasks that currently take up a lot of my time will be less time-consuming once I know what and how to do. For now, after a day of work, I sit down to tasks. I check, modify, and learn.

And do any aspects of your work in sales help you with all of this?

That's for sure.

Where do you seek knowledge on a daily basis? Since you're still in the learning stage, what can you recommend to others approaching the subject?

I still have an online Java course subscription, where I can watch videos on a particular topic. There are all kinds of forums. Artificial intelligence can also provide some insights...

What do you use? Chat GPT?

Yes, GPT. However, unfortunately, you can't ask for tasks like 'write me code.' Considering that this is usually part of a larger system, it simply wouldn't work. If it were about writing some code from scratch, maybe it could work.

Recently, I wanted to get support from ChatGPT for my studies. I asked, 'Can you append lists in Python?' and I received an answer, 'Yes,' along with a code snippet of how it should look. Of course, it didn't compile. I wrote to it that it doesn't work, and I got a reply, 'Oh, I'm sorry, I made a mistake. In Python, you can't do that after all.

From what I know, it works very well for checking if the code contains errors. I don't know if you've already tested it in that direction...

Not really. Uploading company code to the chat is a risk. Then it will be proposing our solutions to everyone.  

Could it work for studies?

People who conduct classes can also throw such a question into the Chat and see what code they get. Although I have a Python project for credit that I don't care too much about right now. Maybe I will use Chat's help? Especially since I have a lot of classes now. In addition to the high school girl who is about to finish her exams, I also have a gentleman who is a year and four months old. And he still doesn't let us sleep. He wakes up two or three times a night and wants to eat.

Besides that, there's a new job, studies, you also need to move sometimes, so some workouts. Now my daughter's exams. And there are always charity activities. They also take up time.

I was just about to ask about that. Because you willingly engage in such assistance actions. Do you have a specific goal in mind – helping children, or do you just like and want to help, regardless of the goal?

You know, I think I'm too sensitive. Well, okay – not 'think'. It's both a flaw and an advantage. Sensitivity to the environment is a great thing, it brings a lot of satisfaction, but sometimes it also costs a lot, not necessarily financially. I support UNICEF for the nutrition of children in the corner of Africa. And I also have my 'SMA kids,' for whom I'm raising funds for gene therapy. Perhaps one of my 'wards,' for whom I organize fundraisers, thanks to the fact that parents worked abroad, will receive foreign reimbursement for the drug. And there's a chance that the money I've raised may go to a fundraiser for another child with SMA. But I'm still waiting for the payment, because it's better to be sure that the reimbursement has been granted. There was a situation with one of these kids, that they already had a promised reimbursement abroad, the parents distributed what they had collected to others in need (around two million), and then the insurer backed out, and they had to start raising funds again. So now everyone, with the division of the money they have, is waiting until the drug is administered.

The issue of reimbursement for gene therapy against SMA in Poland is shockingly tragic for me. Reimbursement was introduced for children below 6 months who had not previously used any other SMA drug. Moreover, screening tests were also introduced. Sixteen children did not meet these conditions, so they are left without reimbursement. Considering the price is around 10 million for a one-time dose. Well, these people simply won't be able to raise the funds themselves. Can't our country afford these few million?

You know, I have a little child who is healthy, growing like a weed, and making our lives a bit chaotic. And partly as a thank you for having such a healthy Ignacy who is getting so big [laughter], I try to help other kids.

Sure, I'll probably want to take it easy. I've been quite active lately, so Facebook keeps bombarding me with one big disaster. You know, the algorithm suggests what you watch and click on. I need to take a break for a bit.

Yes, I mentioned something about karate, about training... Do you still have time for workouts amid all this?

For many years, I practiced kendo. I started around 2010. I trained in various places, beginning in Knurów, then in Gliwice. When I moved to Pszczyna, I commuted to Katowice for training. Later, I trained in Warsaw at the Warsaw Kendo Club, which is one of the most distinguished in Poland. However, the pandemic came, and training was suspended, so it sort of fell apart. Additionally, the WKK dojo is in Praga, and I had to travel 45 minutes. Then, I found out that there's a karate club on the other side of the street, just a five-minute walk away. Considering my need for physical activity, especially as one gets older, I decided that karate is even better. Fencing skills are not as necessary for me now. I attend karate twice a week and sometimes add extra activities like a punching bag or crossfit once a week. I have to negotiate this time with my spouse, but well...

You have to keep moving.

Exactly.